Virtual memory

[Sake906]

This has probably been suggested already, and I could probably also search if it has been, but frankly, seeing how little care has been given to this very issue, it is important to be redundant.

I have moved all my computers to Linux and have been using it for about a year. It is a brilliant OS, but there is this ONE THING that has been happening on all the computers that now run it, all spanning across different generations (2000s, 2010s, 2020s hardware).

Thankfully, it is always the same issue. I'll get to the point: Virtual memory, from the get-go after installing Mint (pagefile, swap, you name it) is either completely missing on the oldest setups, or is a miserable amount (2GB) that runs out immediately while using heavy software. The other problem being that once this pagefile runs out of space, the entire system slows to a complete crawl without any warnings given, all the time requiring a hard reset on every computer that ran into this.

I don't recall ever running into this kind of issue back on Windows (and I am almost confident to say even Win9X). Yes, you will all say "you can do this terminal command..." NO. I have had it with this. Listen up: You want to be the alternative to Windows, you must fix this fundamental issue. I don't want to install third party tools to manage something that's so essential to an OS.

I have people panicking over their computers lagging to a halt and even asking me to restore their Windows partition, hearing "It never happened on Windows" constantly, and it always comes down to this negligent lack of care.

We need a dynamic pagefile resize subsystem, and also a control panel for system memory, like the one on Windows and MacOS (good gosh, even 1991's System 7 had one...)

If we do have one, then you have done an abysmal job at conveying its existence.

[Fantu]

Hi, you can add multiple swap partitions, spread them across different drives, and even create swap files (though this isn’t possible on all file systems and in some is not recommended). There are also far more options for memory management than in Windows, though many of them require careful attention and some technical knowledge.
However, heavy use of swap is not recommended, on HDDs due to performance issues and on SSDs due to wear (especially on consumer SSDs, which have a short lifespan when used intensively).

If you're short on RAM, it's a good idea to make different choices regarding which desktop environment to use and other factors as well.
For example, on PCs with dual-core processors and only 3–4 GB of RAM, I install Mint with MATE as the desktop environment; with less than 3 GB of RAM (in some case also with 4), it’s difficult even on Linux to use it for basic tasks because even simple web browsing is too resource-intensive.
So in such cases, I upgrade the RAM—I have several old, used modules, and in some cases I buy used ones on eBay—as well as replacing HDDs with SSDs (near always if hdd is present).
There’s also the option of using lighter distros, less common but lighter software, and advanced optimizations—and you might even manage to use PCs over 20 years old that wouldn’t run good also Windows XP, but I don’t recommend these approaches (unless those PCs are used by experts).

[fosslover306]

@Fantu We already discussed this, and LMDE has the option to have the kernel omm work set to 'disable' effectivly so it does not do squat, and even what it would do is useless because i'll say it yet again... Average users don't want, let alone know how to communicate directly with the kernel, so if that's going to be your main point go back to 1985 and use unix on an IBM univerity mainframe.

I agree that @Sake906 is having problems on thier 4GB machine, so oom protection would help, and I did make a better config so stop crying about that, if it was actually properly intergrated as an option your whole complaint would be well solved by now.

I also agree that thier 32GB machine locking up is weird, but untill more information is provided such as logs, and what happens before system lockup occurs, at least adding some omm protection that actally works would be a good start, I use earlyoom so I know it works and have battle tested it, so maybe actually try the thing you are recommending "However, I don't have much practical experience with these, as I prefer to avoid running out of memory and resolve any issues that might lead to that (such as memory leaks, other cases of abnormal usage)" I also suggest that you consider that no everyone is a memory managment god, and some people like sake906 just wants thier computer to work.

[Sake906]

@fosslover306 , I just had my 32GB ram machine locking up entirely while compiling something on Unity. I realized I had once again forgotten to enable my swap partition. Unity is a terribly leaky editor and has a tendency to leave a lot on memory after doing such things, and since I have to do about three project compiles in a row (one for each OS family), it will run into this issue around the 2nd compile, if I don't enable swap.

Proof of this would be... well, by the 2nd compile after trying again:

...Can you imagine what would've happened if I only left the default 2GB swap? I hope you do.

[Sake906]

...And for the record, here is my aunt's 4GB case, where ... surprise! Mint thought it'd be a brilliant idea to enable no darn swap file on a system that can barely run Libre Office on unaided memory:

She has a huge HDD that could've (and has been by Windows...) used for a swap file. Guess Mint is too paranoid to do any harm to it, so it would rather brick her system instead.

Also, I think I'm just going to ignore Fantu's replies. Their LLM Em dashes are showing.

[Fantu]

I realized I had once again forgotten to enable my swap partition.

I assume you haven't set swap in /etc/fstab to automatically enable it every boot instead of having to do it manually every time.
It also seems to confirm a memory leak issue in Unity.

Apart from that there is not enough data to help you, I already told you a first general thing.

First, you need to determine whether the system has frozen, or if it’s just a specific program or part of the graphics stack.

This is something even the least experienced users can do, for example, at work, to figure out if a thin client that appears to be frozen is actually not caused by the Linux thin client itself, but rather by the RDP session failing to receive updates due to issues on the Windows server it’s connected to.

If you're having trouble understanding what I'm writing, it's most likely because of the LLM plague that everyone seems to be forced to use everywhere. Use a translator because my English isn't great, but ever since they started using LLMs, the translations have gotten much worse they're changing my sentences and cutting out parts.

Regarding the PC with 4 GB of RAM, at least 2 GB of swap are needed but also set it so that I use the swap as little as possible to avoid the risk of getting to the freezing point more easily or almost.
Probably also add zswap can be useful, need to know what cpu there is to understand what settings can be good.
In any case, you'd still need to use the terminal even if you don't like it.

[fosslover306]

@Sake906 Now i think I get it, it seems thier was bug in the installer that caused it to not make a swap file, usely it should be automaticly generated so this not a feature problem, it's a bug problem.

I would recomend deleting the disk image you used to install LMDE or Linux Mint, and download a new one and don't do any manual partioning, and after the install is complete and it has booted into the actual install, open the system monitor agian and see if swap was created or not.

1. If it was created originaly messing with it earlier could have messed it up so it was no longer availible.

2. If it again is not created automaticly then you have genuine bug, and that needs to be reported and fixed.

Because sometime the iso image does not download right, and other tines it could be that the newest image has a bug in it, and using an older image and updating backup to the current release, usally only a few kernel versions back or somthing so no big deal, or waiting week or so after to see if the new image works.

Iv'e had to deal with those random issues before, and iv'e had to learn a few tricks.

I had the honor of experincing how buggy the new installer was for LMD6, and Linux Mint releases from the same time frame in it's early days.

Not automaticly generating, hostnames, not being able to create the efi enteries properly or at all, and scaling problems puting install options off sceen that I could not scroll thru...

Anyway those issues were eventually fixed, but only after the new installer was branded the buggiest installer they have ever used, and it was actually easyier to use the LMDE 5 installer and then upgrade to LMDE6 then to deal with the new buggy almost broken installer, to be honest then new installer looks fantastic but it really needed more work before release, and I would argue still needs work because it still can't gererate a hostname, like the old installer did.

But like they say, "not everything that glitters is made of gold".

So try using the LMDE 5 installer, then upgrade to LMDE6, If you are instead installing Linux Mint then try using an install image from a few versions back.

LMDE: Debian base.
Linux Mint: Ubuntu base.

Also the systems fstab needs to know where the swap partion is, or where and what size to make the swap file, so you really do not want to mess with swap and boot configurations, one minor or percieved problem, could become a major real problem that is 10x worse then what you wanted to fix.

And considering 4GB of RAM was barely aduquate 5 years ago, having OOM protection is a must on that machine espeacilly if debloating and optimizing stuff is not enoufe or disired, after all software devolopment won't standstill for you, and definatly not your old hardware so when chosing a desktop envirement your target machines specs must be taken into account.

Linux provides tons of choices for themes, features, software, desktop envirments, and unlike windows those choices matter, but you also have the freedom to break your machine to.

You can also change to a different desktop envirment (DE) without needing to reinstall anything.

I may sound negitive, but the honest truth is being tough on what you depend on is a good thing to do, afterall even your parents and best friends can make mistakes, and false assumptions and since you spend time with them those mistakes if they cause huge problems are going to effect you too.

FYI, we all make mistakes and nobody should be above getting their cr!p called, out becauce consuquences don't care about your feelings, but your friends and family usally do.

Linux Mint is one of the most user friendly and stable distros, but refusing to improve basic things helps nobody.

[Fantu]

Windows’ handling of paging files isn’t any better; over the past 20 years, I’ve seen this cause problems on numerous occasions, both on desktops and servers.

As for having problems with 32 GB of RAM, except in a few cases where it’s used for development, testing, video editing, and the like, there shouldn’t be issues due to a lack of RAM. For example, on my gaming PC with 32 GB of RAM, I haven’t even set up a swap file.

I’ve installed Linux desktop distributions on between 30 and 40 PCs belonging to people who know little to nothing about computers—and some of them struggled even with Windows (they’d panic even when an icon changed, just to give you an idea of their level)—and they found almost everything to be fine, with many even preferring it over Windows: generally fewer problems, faster performance, and no need to replace their PCs (I even left the HDDs with some of them).

In any case, it’s best to be careful not to force a switch to Linux and only do so where it actually makes sense.
For example, in corporate or government where they’re required to use specific proprietary Windows software, it’s better not to use Linux at all (except in a few cases), or you risk wasting more time and causing users to struggle.
Even in for other people out of work, if there’s a need for proprietary Windows software that can’t be replaced, I avoid installing Linux, and there are very few cases where I’ve installed Linux with Windows software using Wine.
By doing this, I’ve almost always saved time for both myself and the users and encountered fewer problems. If, on the other hand, you force a switch to Linux (in a desktop environment) in situations with proprietary software that’s only for Windows and is often bad developed, then it’s normal to run into more problems.
Another important point is to avoid or limit as much as possible the installation of (native Linux) software from sources outside the system repositories—such as standalone packages like Flatpak and, above all, Snap—because, after Windows software, these are the ones that cause the most problems, consume more hardware resources, and take more time.